Category Archives: Apple Silicon

Apple M4 Processor Series

Understanding the Apple M4 Series processors

The M4 Series is built on the N3E 3nm process. Previously they were rumored to go into production in the 2nd half of 2025 with systems available starting in 2026. Now apparently, Mark Gurman says in the end of 2024 we will begin to see low-end and mid-tier M4 series Mac systems, with high-end in 2025.

May 7, 2024 Apple announced the M4 for the iPad Pro will be available May 15, 2024. There has been no official announcements yet about the M4 Series for Macs.

TSMC who manufactures these chips for Apple, is also working on 2nm chips, expected in 2025. TSMC is also working on 1.6nm or 16 angstrom (angstroms are 10 times smaller than nanometer) or A16 chips, expected as soon as 2027. There are also plans for 1nm or 10 angstrom or A10 chips at a later date.

We must be getting closer to the limit of how far we can shrink these chips. A human hair is 80,000-100,000 nanometers wide. A single gold atom is about a third of a nanometer, so you would think a 1nm process must be awfully close to the limit.

Yehuda Rothschild Apple M4 Processor Series YouTube Channel

The brilliance of Apple silicon is the components of each one are the same. There are just more or less of them in each type.

Performance of the various M4 processors, just like their predecessors really will boil down to the base M4 processor performance. At this point specifications are wild guesstimates starting with M3 Series specifications.

** If you are browsing this page from a phone, you may want to view the following chart in landscape mode.

ComponentM4M4 Pro ?M4 Max ?M4 Ultra ?M4 Extreme ?
Efficiency CPU Cores664816
Efficiency Clock2.75GHz2.75GHz2.75GHz2.75GHz2.75GHz
Performance CPU Cores3 or 45 or 610 or 1220 or 2440 or 48
Performance Clock3.93GHz3.93GHz3.93GHz3.93GHz3.93GHz
Neural Engine Cores1616163264
GPU Cores options8 or 1014 or 1830 or 4060 or 80120 or 160
Unified Memory options8GB 16GB18GB 36GB36GB 48GB 64GB 96GB 128GB64GB 96GB 128GB 192GB 256GB128GB 192GB 256GB 384GB 512GB
Memory Bandwidth120GB/s150GB/s300GB/s or 400GB/s800GB/s1600GB/s
Video Decode Engines11124
Video Encode Engines11248
ProRes Encode-Decode Engines11248

Assuming a 2 year processor life cycle, before the end of 2027 the M4 Series should be history and fully replaced by the Apple M5 Processor Series in newly released products.

CPU & GPU Performance Benchmarks

Buying an Apple M4 Series computer

Any Apple M4 Series computer will be an incredible experience compared to music and video production on Intel hardware. However it is highly recommended to get at least 16GB of memory (or more) and 512GB storage (or more) if you select an M4 Series system.

There are 9 basic form factors of Apple macOS systems with M4 Series processors expected, 5 laptops and 4 desktops.

  • 13″ MacBook Air M4
  • 15″ MacBook Air M4
  • 14″ MacBook Pro M4
  • 14″ MacBook Pro M4 Pro & M4 Max
  • 16″ MacBook Pro M4 Pro & M4 Max
  • 24″ iMac M4
  • Mac mini M4 & M4 Pro
  • Mac Studio M4 Max & M4 Ultra
  • Mac Pro M4 Ultra & M4 Extreme

Thanks!
-Yehuda

Useful Links

Apple related pages
Updated periodically – Apple Silicon is the DAW standard
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Studio M1 Max & M1 Ultra
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Studio M2 Max & M2 Ultra
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Studio M3 Max & M3 Ultra
Updated periodically – Apple MacBook Pro M1 Pro & M1 Max
Updated periodically – Apple MacBook Pro M2 Pro & M2 Max
Updated periodically – Apple MacBook Pro M3 Pro & M3 Max
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Pro M2 Ultra
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Pro M3 Ultra & M3 Extreme
Updated periodically – Apple Mac mini M1
Updated periodically – Apple Mac mini M2 & M2 Pro
Updated periodically – Apple Mac mini M3 & M3 Pro
Updated periodically – Apple Studio Display
Updated periodically – Apple M1 Processor Series
Updated periodically – Apple M2 Processor Series
Updated periodically – Apple M3 Processor Series

Follow on Mastodon – TurtleIsland.social/@Yehuda

This page is subject to content updates/additions. If you think any content should be updated or added, please leave a private comment on Mastodon – TurtleIsland.social/@Yehuda.

Apple M3 Processor Series

Understanding possibly five Apple M3 Series processors

Apple M3
Apple announced the M3 series of chips on October 30, 2023, along with the new MacBook Pro and iMac. The M3 is based on the 3 nm process and contains 25 billion transistors, a 25% increase from the previous generation M2. It has 8 CPU cores (4 performance and 4 efficiency) and up to 10 GPU cores. Apple claims CPU improvements up to 35% and GPU improvements up to 65% compared to the M1.

Apple M3 Pro
The M3 Pro is a more powerful version of the M3, with six performance cores, six efficiency cores, 14 to 18 GPU cores, 16 Neural Engine cores, up to 36 GB unified RAM with 150 GB/s memory bandwidth, and 48% more transistors. It is used in the 14- and 16-inch MacBook Pro. Apple claims the CPU performance is 30 percent faster than the M1 Pro and the GPU is 40 percent faster than the M1 Pro.

Apple M3 Max
The M3 Max is a larger version of the M3 Pro, with ten or twelve performance cores, four efficiency cores, 30 to 40 GPU cores, 16 Neural Engine cores, up to 128 GB unified RAM with up to 400 GB/s memory bandwidth, and more than double the transistors. It is used in the 14- and 16-inch MacBook Pro. Apple claims the CPU performance is 80 percent faster than the M1 Max and the GPU is 50 percent faster than the M1 Max.

Apple M3 Ultra is currently unreleased
Wikipedia 

The M3, M3 Pro and M3 Max use the N3B architecture 3nm process. The N3B process is purported to have a 15% performance boost and a 30% power saving improvement over the N5P process in the M2.

Apple says the M3 Series is 30% faster than the M1 Series, and 15% faster than the M2 Series.

The M3 series is improved but probably not enough for most people to upgrade from a M2 equivalent. The M3 series is improved enough for many people to upgrade from an M1 equivalent but not all people will find value even in that upgrade.

The brilliance of Apple silicon is the components of each one are the same. There are just more or less of them in each type.

Performance of the various M3 processors, just like their predecessors really will boil down to the base M3 processor performance.

The CPU/GPU core counts are a bit unexpected, in some cases fewer than M2 Series. Also notice the M3 Pro memory bandwidth is down to 150GB/s and M3 Max 14 CPU core, 30 GPU core is 300GB/s.

Apple has re-balanced the M3 Pro and M3 Max with a larger performance gap between them. The M3 Pro has more emphasis on power efficiency than performance improvement. The M2 Pro already punches hard and power efficiency is always a good thing in a laptop, but in many ways the M3 Pro is a sidegrade from the M2 Pro. In other words in a similar performance range.

The M3 Max is a different story though. In CPU benchmarks, the M3 Max outperforms the M1 Ultra. In GPU benchmarks, the M3 Max tests close to the M1 Ultra.

The M3 Ultra likely to not be released

It is very interesting to note, that if you look at the M3 Max die in the image above, there appears to be no UltraFusion interconnect. This suggests that the M3 Ultra would be a standalone chip, instead of 2 connected M3 Maxs or that Apple has no intention of releasing it. SInce Apple has announced the M4 for the iPad Pro, I vote for the latter.

At any rate, only time will tell. I can’t wait to see what actually happens.

** If you are browsing this page from a phone, you may want to view the following chart in landscape mode.

ComponentM3M3 ProM3 MaxM3 Ultra ?
Efficiency CPU Cores4648
Efficiency Clock2.75GHz2.75GHz2.75GHz2.75GHz
Performance CPU Cores45 or 610 or 1220 or 24
Performance Clock4.05GHz4.05GHz4.05GHz4.05GHz
Neural Engine Cores16161632
GPU Cores options8 or 1014 or 1830 or 4060 or 80
Unified Memory options8GB 16GB 24GB18GB 36GB36GB 48GB 64GB 96GB 128GB64GB 96GB 128GB 192GB 256GB
Memory Bandwidth100GB/s150GB/s300GB/s or 400GB/s800GB/s
Video Decode Engines1112
Video Encode Engines1124
ProRes Encode-Decode Engines1124

Assuming a 2 year processor life cycle, before the end of 2025 the M3 Series should be history and fully replaced by the Apple M4 Processor Series in newly released products.

CPU & GPU Performance Benchmarks

Videos

Yehuda Rothschild Apple M3 Processor Series YouTube Channel

Buying an Apple M3 Series computer

Any Apple M3 Series computer will be an incredible experience compared to music and video production on Intel hardware. However it is highly recommended to get at least 16GB of memory (or more) and 512GB storage (or more) if you select an M3 Series system.

There are 9 basic form factors of Apple macOS systems with M3 Series processors expected, 5 laptops and 4 desktops.

Thanks!
-Yehuda

Useful Links

Apple related pages
Updated periodically – Apple Silicon is the DAW standard
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Studio M1 Max & M1 Ultra
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Studio M2 Max & M2 Ultra
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Studio M3 Max & M3 Ultra
Updated periodically – Apple MacBook Pro M1 Pro & M1 Max
Updated periodically – Apple MacBook Pro M2 Pro & M2 Max
Updated periodically – Apple MacBook Pro M3 Pro & M3 Max
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Pro M2 Ultra
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Pro M3 Ultra & M3 Extreme
Updated periodically – Apple Mac mini M1
Updated periodically – Apple Mac mini M2 & M2 Pro
Updated periodically – Apple Mac mini M3 & M3 Pro
Updated periodically – Apple Studio Display
Updated periodically – Apple M1 Processor Series
Updated periodically – Apple M2 Processor Series
Updated periodically – Apple M3 Processor Series

Follow on Mastodon – TurtleIsland.social/@Yehuda

This page is subject to content updates/additions. If you think any content should be updated or added, please leave a private comment on Mastodon – TurtleIsland.social/@Yehuda.

Apple M2 Processor Series

Understanding the four Apple M2 Series processors

Apple M2
Apple announced the M2 SoC on June 6, 2022, at WWDC, along with the new MacBook Air and the new 13-inch MacBook Pro and later the iPad Pro (6th generation). It is the successor to the Apple M1. The M2 is made with TSMC’s “Enhanced 5-nanometer technology” N5P process and contains 20 billion transistors, a 25% increase from the previous generation M1. The M2 can be configured with up to 24 gigabytes of RAM and 2 terabytes of storage. It has 8 CPU cores (4 performance and 4 efficiency) and up to 10 GPU cores. The M2 also increases the memory bandwidth to 100 GB/s. Apple claims CPU improvements up to 18% and GPU improvements up to 35% compared to the previous M1.

Apple M2 Pro
The M2 Pro is a more powerful version of the M2, with six to eight performance cores, four efficiency cores, 16 to 19 core GPU, 16 Apple Next Generation Neural Engine cores, up to 32 GBs of unified RAM with up to 200 GB/s memory bandwidth, and over 40 billion transistors, 20 percent more than the M1 Pro and twice the M2. It was announced on January 17, 2023 in a press release and it is used in the 14 and 16 inch 2023 MacBook Pro (Apple silicon) as well as the Mac Mini. Apple claims the CPU performance on the M2 Pro is 20 percent faster than the M1 Pro and the GPU is 30 percent faster than the one on the M1 Pro.

Apple M2 Max
The M2 Max is a larger more powerful version of the M2 Pro, with eight performance cores, four efficiency cores, 30 to 38 core GPU, 16 Apple Next Generation Neural Engine cores, up to 96GBs of unified RAM with up to 400 GB/s memory bandwidth, and over 67 billion transistors, 10 billion more than the M1 Max and 3x the M2. It was announced on January 17, 2023 in a press release and it is used in the 14 and 16 inch 2023 MacBook Pro (Apple silicon). Apple claims the CPU performance on the M2 Max is 20 percent faster that M1 Max and the GPU is 30 percent faster than the M1 Max. According to Apple, “the M2 Max is the most powerful and efficient chip in a pro laptop”.

Apple M2 Ultra
The M2 Ultra consists of two M2 Max dies connected together by a silicon interposer through Apple’s UltraFusion technology. It has 134 billion transistors, 16 performance cores, 8 efficiency cores, 60 to 76 GPU cores and 32 Neural Engine cores; it can be configured with up to 192 GB unified RAM of 800 GB/s memory bandwidth. It was announced on June 5, 2023, as an optional upgrade for the Mac Studio and the sole processor for the Apple silicon Mac Pro. Apple claims the M1 Ultra can deliver up to 22 streams of 8K ProRes video playback.
Wikipedia 

The brilliance of Apple silicon is the components of each one are the same. There are just more or less of them in each type.

Performance of the various M2 processors really boils down to the base M2 processor performance.

The base M2 has been in the MacBook Air and available since the beginning of July 2022. The Mac mini refreshed its lineup to the M2 and M2 Pro in Q1 of 2023.

The 14″ & 16″ MacBook Pros upgraded to the M2 Pro and M2 Max in Q1 of 2023.

The Mac Studio upgraded to the M2 Max and M2 Ultra, and the Mac Pro upgraded to M2 Ultra in June of 2023.

Apple is possibly trying to move M Series processor upgrades to an annual rhythm like the A Series processors for iPhones etc. The M2 Extreme has been reportedly scrapped. Rumors say the 24″ iMac will not get released in a M2 iteration.

By the end of 2023, the Apple M1 Processor Series should be history and fully replaced by the Apple M2 and M3 Processor Series in newly released products.

M2, M2 Pro, M2 Max, and M2 Ultra specifications

While M2, M2 Pro and M2 Max are distinct designs, the M2 Ultra is essentially two interconnected M2 Maxs (as the M1 Ultra was two M1 Maxs).

** If you are browsing this page from a phone, you may want to view the following chart in landscape mode.

ComponentM2M2 ProM2 MaxM2 Ultra
Efficiency CPU Cores4448
Efficiency Clock2.4GHz2.4GHz2.4GHz2.4GHz
Performance CPU Cores46 or 8816
Performance Clock3.5GHz3.5GHz3.5GHz3.5GHz
Neural Engine Cores16161632
GPU Cores options8 or 1016 or 1930 or 3860 or 76
Unified Memory options8GB 16GB 24GB16GB 32GB32GB 64GB 96GB64GB 128GB 192GB
Memory Bandwidth100GB/s200GB/s400GB/s800GB/s
Video Decode Engines1112
Video Encode Engines1124
ProRes Encode-Decode Engines1124

Assuming a less than 2 year processor life cycle, before the end of 2024 the M2 Series should be history and fully replaced by the Apple M3 Processor Series in newly released products.

CPU & GPU Performance Benchmarks

Buying an Apple M2 Series computer

Any Apple M2 Series computer will be a joyful experience compared to music and video production on Intel hardware. Highly recommended to get at least 16GB of memory and 512GB storage if you select an M2 Series system.

So far, there are 8 basic form factors of Apple macOS systems with M2 Series processors, 5 laptops and 3 desktops.

Thanks!
-Yehuda

Useful Links

Apple related pages
Updated periodically – Apple Silicon is the DAW standard
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Studio M1 Max & M1 Ultra
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Studio M2 Max & M2 Ultra
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Studio M3 Max & M3 Ultra
Updated periodically – Apple MacBook Pro M1 Pro & M1 Max
Updated periodically – Apple MacBook Pro M2 Pro & M2 Max
Updated periodically – Apple MacBook Pro M3 Pro & M3 Max
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Pro M2 Ultra
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Pro M3 Ultra & M3 Extreme
Updated periodically – Apple Mac mini M1
Updated periodically – Apple Mac mini M2 & M2 Pro
Updated periodically – Apple Mac mini M3 & M3 Pro
Updated periodically – Apple Studio Display
Updated periodically – Apple M1 Processor Series
Updated periodically – Apple M2 Processor Series
Updated periodically – Apple M3 Processor Series

Follow on Mastodon – TurtleIsland.social/@Yehuda

This page is subject to content updates/additions. If you think any content should be updated or added, please leave a private comment on Mastodon – TurtleIsland.social/@Yehuda.

Apple M1 Processor Series

Understanding the four Apple M1 Series processors

Apple M1
The M1, Apple’s first system on a chip designed for use in Macs, is manufactured using TSMC’s 5 nm process. Announced on November 10, 2020, it is used in the MacBook Air (M1, 2020), Mac mini (M1, 2020), MacBook Pro (13-inch, M1, 2020), iMac (24-inch, M1, 2021), iPad Pro (5th generation) and iPad Air (5th generation). It comes with 4 performance cores and 4 efficiency cores, for a total of 8 CPU cores. It comes with up to 8 GPU cores, with the entry level MacBook Air having only 7 GPU cores. The M1 has 16 billion transistors.

Apple M1 Pro
The M1 Pro is a more powerful version of the M1, with six to eight performance cores, two efficiency cores, 14 to 16 GPU cores, 16 Neural Engine cores, up to 32 GB unified RAM with up to 200 GB/s memory bandwidth, and more than double the transistors. It was announced on October 18, 2021, and is used in the 14- and 16-inch MacBook Pro. Apple said the CPU performance is about 70% faster than the M1, and that its GPU performance is about double. Apple claims the M1 Pro can deliver up to 20 streams of 4K or 7 streams of 8K ProRes video playback (up from 6 offered by Afterburner card for 2019 Mac Pro).

Apple M1 Max
The M1 Max is a larger version of the M1 Pro chip, with eight performance cores, two efficiency cores, 24 to 32 GPU cores, 16 Neural Engine cores, up to 64 GB unified RAM with up to 400 GB/s memory bandwidth, and more than double the number of transistors. It was announced on October 18, 2021, and is used in the 14- and 16-inch MacBook Pro, as well as the Mac Studio. Apple says it has 57 billion transistors. Apple claims the M1 Max can deliver up to 30 streams of 4K (up from 23 offered by Afterburner card for 2019 Mac Pro) or 7 streams of 8K ProRes video playback.

Apple M1 Ultra
The M1 Ultra consists of two M1 Max dies connected together by a silicon interposer through Apple’s UltraFusion technology. It has 114 billion transistors, 16 performance cores, 4 efficiency cores, 48 to 64 GPU cores and 32 Neural Engine cores; it can be configured with up to 128 GB unified RAM of 800 GB/s memory bandwidth. It was announced on March 8, 2022, as an optional upgrade for the Mac Studio. Apple claims the M1 Ultra can deliver up to 18 streams of 8K ProRes video playback.
Wikipedia

The brilliance of Apple silicon is the components of each one are the same. There are just more or less of them in each type.

* Exception is the M1 does not have the ProRes Encoder/Decoders that the M1 Pro, M1 Max and M1 Ultra have.

The Apple M1 Processor Series are truly game changing processors. By the end of 2023 all Intel based Macs should be history and replaced by M Series processors. As of Q1 2023, the only Apple system with Intel processors still is the Mac Pro.

The M1 processors are Apple custom ARMv8 processors and based on the TSMC 5nm process.

** If you are browsing this page from a phone, you may want to view the following chart in landscape mode.

ComponentM1M1 ProM1 MaxM1 Ultra
Efficiency CPU Cores4224
Efficiency Clock2.1GHz2.1GHz2.1GHz2.1GHz
Performance CPU Cores46 or 8816
Performance Clock3.2GHz3.2GHz3.2GHz3.2GHz
Neural Engine Cores16161632
GPU Cores7 or 814 or 1624 or 3248 or 64
Unified Memory8GB or 16GB16GB or 32GB32GB or 64GB64GB or 128GB
Memory Bandwidth68.25GB/s200GB/s400GB/s800GB/s
Video Decode Engines1112
Video Encode Engines1124
ProRes Encode-Decode Engines0124

Assuming a 2 year processor upgrade cycle, by the end of 2023 the M1 Series should be history and fully replaced by the Apple M2 Processor Series in newly released products.

Buying an Apple M1 Series computer

Any Apple M1 Series computer will be a joyful experience compared to music and video production on Intel hardware. If you are a musician or creator, it is highly recommended to get at least 16GB of memory and 512GB storage if you select an M1 system. At the other end of the scale, 64 GPU cores and 128GB of memory will probably not make an appreciable difference for the average musician or creator if you select an M1 Ultra system.

There are 7 basic form factors of Apple macOS systems with M1 Series processors, 3 desktops and 4 laptops.

Thanks!
-Yehuda

Useful Links

Apple related pages
Updated periodically – Apple Silicon is the DAW standard
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Studio M1 Max & M1 Ultra
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Studio M2 Max & M2 Ultra
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Studio M3 Max & M3 Ultra
Updated periodically – Apple MacBook Pro M1 Pro & M1 Max
Updated periodically – Apple MacBook Pro M2 Pro & M2 Max
Updated periodically – Apple MacBook Pro M3 Pro & M3 Max
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Pro M2 Ultra
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Pro M3 Ultra & M3 Extreme
Updated periodically – Apple Mac mini M1
Updated periodically – Apple Mac mini M2 & M2 Pro
Updated periodically – Apple Mac mini M3 & M3 Pro
Updated periodically – Apple Studio Display
Updated periodically – Apple M1 Processor Series
Updated periodically – Apple M2 Processor Series
Updated periodically – Apple M3 Processor Series

Follow on Mastodon – TurtleIsland.social/@Yehuda

This page is subject to content updates/additions. If you think any content should be updated or added, please leave a private comment on Mastodon – TurtleIsland.social/@Yehuda.

Apple Silicon is the DAW standard

Apple M Series is the new DAW performance minimum!

Prior to Apple silicon, I used Intel based PCs for decades, but it no longer makes any sense whatsoever. Apple innovation has flown above and beyond Intel.

I would suggest at the barest minimum an entry level Apple M1 (Air, Mini, iMac) if you are serious about your music. A brand new M2 Mac mini can be had from Apple starting at $599.00. Used M1 Mac minis must be dirt cheap. MacBooks and iMacs can be had for reasonable costs too. Choose what you’re comfortable with, but do it.

Maybe a less than 10 year old Intel-based system with enough RAM and SSD might be able to run Ableton Live, Pro Tools, Logic Pro, FL Studio, Reason, Cubase, or the DAW of your choice. But will the older Intel-based systems run your software great or without issues? Probably not, though a lot of people are going to rationalize going with less even if it isn’t the right choice.

Apple silicon is the DAW standard. The developers of your DAW and plugins are going to use the power available to them. If your Intel-based hardware isn’t dogging now, it will be soon.

Video is another area that Apple silicon excels at and will be of increasing importance for creators.

Most musicians, obsessed as we can be, have thousands, even tens of thousands of dollars of gear. A sufficient DAW should be a prioritized part of whatever you have, and if your DAW is your gear, it’s even more critical. Your DAW should not be the choke point. System performance frustration or software limitations should never be part of the creative process. Think about it. Do some research. Watch some videos. You’ll be amazed at how even the entry level Apple silicon leaps ahead of Intel without a hiccup.

If your budget allows better than M1, be sure to read the reviews and resources in the ‘Useful Links’ below.

Thanks!
-Yehuda

Useful Links

Apple related pages
Updated periodically – Apple Silicon is the DAW standard
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Studio M1 Max & M1 Ultra
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Studio M2 Max & M2 Ultra
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Studio M3 Max & M3 Ultra
Updated periodically – Apple MacBook Pro M1 Pro & M1 Max
Updated periodically – Apple MacBook Pro M2 Pro & M2 Max
Updated periodically – Apple MacBook Pro M3 Pro & M3 Max
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Pro M2 Ultra
Updated periodically – Apple Mac Pro M3 Ultra & M3 Extreme
Updated periodically – Apple Mac mini M1
Updated periodically – Apple Mac mini M2 & M2 Pro
Updated periodically – Apple Mac mini M3 & M3 Pro
Updated periodically – Apple Studio Display
Updated periodically – Apple M1 Processor Series
Updated periodically – Apple M2 Processor Series
Updated periodically – Apple M3 Processor Series

Follow on Mastodon – TurtleIsland.social/@Yehuda

This page is subject to content updates/additions. If you think any content should be updated or added, please leave a private comment on Mastodon – TurtleIsland.social/@Yehuda.